You are viewing the MafiaScum.net Wiki. To play the game, visit the forum.

Hider: Difference between revisions

From MafiaWiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
(rewrite the page to fit the Normal version of Hider)
(term replacement 2)
 
(8 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{role
{{RolePage
|image= T-hider.png
| Image = T-hider.png
|color= {{rgb|town}}
| Align = Town | Align2 = Mafia
|alias=  
| Type = Protective | Type2 = Killing
|align= Pro-town
| Choice = Night
|type= Protective
| Normal = Yes
|type2= Informative
| Introduction = The name "'''Hider'''" describes a set of closely related roles. Each of them are active roles in which the user flavourfully "hides behind" the target of their [[night choice]], typically making the user less vulnerable to actions used directly on them, but more vulnerable to their target and people attacking their target. However, the details vary by version.
|choice= Night
| Standard = The [[Normal]] version of the Hider is one of the simplest: the Hider, when they use their ability, cannot be killed by actions targeted at them; however, if their target dies as a result of an active killing action (e.g. a [[factional kill]] or [[Vigilante]] shot), the Hider will also die.
|notes=
| Variations = A [[Weak]] Hider is the original form of the Hider. This modified role is the most common version of this role (to the extent that many people will just say "Hider" to mean the role that has been standardised as "Weak Hider". A Weak role will die upon targeting a [[scum]] player, in addition to the other aspects of their role.
}}
The name "'''Hider'''" describes a set of closely related roles. Each of them are active roles in which the user flavourfully "hides behind" the target of their [[night choice]], typically making the user less vulnerable to actions used directly on them, but more vulnerable to their target and people attacking their target. However, the details vary by version.
 
== Normal Guidelines ==
 
The [[Normal]] version of the Hider is one of the simplest: the Hider, when they use their ability, cannot be killed by actions targeted at them; however, if their target dies as a result of an active killing action (e.g. a [[factional kill]] or [[Vigilante]] shot), the Hider will also die. The role is effectively a [[Babysitter]] in reverse (and thus sometimes called "inverse Babysitter" to distinguish it from other Hider variants).
 
As usual with Normals, modifiers can be attached to the role to make it into related roles; the first variant listed below is a [[Weak]] Hider.
 
==Variations==
 
It is very common for a Hider to die if they attempt to hide behind [[scum]] (presumably, the Mafia or Werewolf being hidden behind takes issue with it and kills the Hider). Many players will take this for granted upon seeing the role name "Hider", but in a Normal game, a modifier must be used to clarify this point.


Some moderators treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee. This would change the result if, e.g., a Doctor was targeting the hidee directly (the variant Hider would die in that situation, whereas a Normal Hider would survive).
Some moderators treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee. This would change the result if, e.g., a Doctor was targeting the hidee directly (the variant Hider would die in that situation, whereas a Normal Hider would survive).


Some moderators cause hiding to apply to things other than kills. This commonly happens defensively; instead of being [[Bulletproof]] against direct actions while hiding, the Hider would be treated as a [[Commuter]] for direct actions. When treating actions as being copied (as in the previous variation), actions other than kills might also be copied; so the Doctor would now protect both targets, but a [[Cop]] would (perhaps unexpectedly) get two results. This variant is often difficult to moderate as some interactions can be hard to resolve sensibly; a [[Roleblocker]] on the Hider's target would block the Hider if and only if it didn't block the Hider, which doesn't make much sense.
Some moderators cause hiding to apply to things other than kills. This commonly happens defensively; instead of being [[Bulletproof]] against direct actions while hiding, the Hider would be treated as a [[Commuter]] for direct actions. When treating actions as being copied (as in the previous variation), actions other than kills might also be copied; so the Doctor would now protect both targets, but a [[Cop]] would (perhaps unexpectedly) get two results. Note that this variant can lead to action resolution issues.


==Use and Power==
Other roles that can make their owner immune to nightkills include [[Bulletproof]] and [[Commuter]]. Meanwhile, the other aspect of the role – dying if the target dies, – has been seen as a modifier in its own right, [[Regretful]].
| Use = The Weak variant of Hider is a fairly powerful investigative role due to its ability to investigate and self-protect at the same time. It would be best to treat a Weak Hider as an inferior [[Cop]] that will have to play differently to deliver [[Innocent|innocents]] and [[Guilty|guilties]].


The Weak variants of Hider are fairly powerful investigative roles due to their ability to investigate and self-protect at the same time. The Mafia can deal with most claimed investigative roles using their factional kill, but a Normal Hider typically requires the use of a power role to stop (and for some abNormal variants, even that may not be enough). Note that your choice of target is somewhat constrained: Weak investigations are often more useful finding town than finding scum – especially as the latter leads to ambiguous results – and you definitely want to avoid hiding behind someone that the scum could plausibly decide to nightkill. A Weak Hider is probably about on par with a Cop; although they have several disadvantages, they also have several unique advantages. Perhaps a good way to think about it is that a Cop is powerful but vulnerable, whereas a Hider is a bit less powerful but a bit less vulnerable.
A pure Normal Hider is, perhaps paradoxically, a substantially weaker role than the Weak variants. In the best case a Normal Hider is conditionally [[Bulletproof]]: by hiding behind players who are unlikely to be killed, such as the [[scummy|scummiest]] looking player, the Hider will effectively protect itself. This tactic may backfire if a [[Vigilante]] is in the game, so when balancing the game, you may need to allow both for the Hider hiding behind the Vigilante's target, and a Hider failing to hide Night 1 because they're waiting to see whether the setup contains a Vigilante or not.


A pure Normal Hider is, perhaps paradoxically, a substantially weaker role than the Weak variants. The best you're likely to be able to do is to treat it as a slightly imperfect form of [[Bulletproof]] by hiding behind players who are unlikely to be killed; the scummiest-looking player is likely the best choice, unless there's the possibility of a [[Vigilante]] in the game, in which case dodging both kills may be difficult.
It's important to be sure, when wording a Hider PM, to ensure that they only die if their target is killed, as opposed to their target simply dying (such as a [[Doomed]] Townie). Although, some mods may consider this to be a feature, not a bug!
| Advice = A Normal Hider should opt to protect the player they believe most strongly to be scum, effectively becoming bulletproof for the night, unless they suspect that the setup contains a [[Vigilante]]. While a Hider may [[gambit]] to draw a night kill, unless the setup seems to reward this type of play, a Hider should simply try to be as town as possible. Managing to draw a kill as a Hider is a two-for-one deal: a kill on a Hider is not a kill that is likely to succeed on other members of the Town, and a kill on a Hider is not a kill on their target, further adding to its power.


==Play Advice==
Meanwhile, a Weak Hider has two options:
 
# Hide behind the least likely town kill, becoming unkillable for that night and [[Innocent|confirming]] that person as town.
If you have investigative ability (e.g. via a [[Weak]] modifier), it's normally a good idea to try to draw the kill via claiming the fact that you can investigate (especially if you're playing a Hider variant that can dodge a [[Roleblocker]] shot aimed directly at it), whilst hiding the self-protective parts of the role; note that you should do this in a circumstance in which it would be plausible for a [[Cop]] (or whatever) to claim, because being disbelieved due to an implausible claim timing would be fairly bad. This allows you to effectively investigate and protect the Mafia's second choice nightkill target at the same time.
# Hide behind the player most likely to be scum: and make no secret that if you end up dead, that is what likely happened during the night phase. This can effectively be a [[guilty]] on a player.
As with all Weak roles, it is best to leave a [[breadcrumb]] so that if you die, players can in retrospect work out who you must have hidden behind.
| SampleModifier = Weak
}}

Latest revision as of 08:01, 24 September 2022

Hider
T-hider.png
Alias: none
Alignment:
Role type:
  • Protective
  • Killing
Choice:
  • Night

The name "Hider" describes a set of closely related roles. Each of them are active roles in which the user flavourfully "hides behind" the target of their night choice, typically making the user less vulnerable to actions used directly on them, but more vulnerable to their target and people attacking their target. However, the details vary by version.

Normal version

The Normal version of the Hider is one of the simplest: the Hider, when they use their ability, cannot be killed by actions targeted at them; however, if their target dies as a result of an active killing action (e.g. a factional kill or Vigilante shot), the Hider will also die.

Variations

A Weak Hider is the original form of the Hider. This modified role is the most common version of this role (to the extent that many people will just say "Hider" to mean the role that has been standardised as "Weak Hider". A Weak role will die upon targeting a scum player, in addition to the other aspects of their role.

Some moderators treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee. This would change the result if, e.g., a Doctor was targeting the hidee directly (the variant Hider would die in that situation, whereas a Normal Hider would survive).

Some moderators cause hiding to apply to things other than kills. This commonly happens defensively; instead of being Bulletproof against direct actions while hiding, the Hider would be treated as a Commuter for direct actions. When treating actions as being copied (as in the previous variation), actions other than kills might also be copied; so the Doctor would now protect both targets, but a Cop would (perhaps unexpectedly) get two results. Note that this variant can lead to action resolution issues.

Other roles that can make their owner immune to nightkills include Bulletproof and Commuter. Meanwhile, the other aspect of the role – dying if the target dies, – has been seen as a modifier in its own right, Regretful.

Use & Balance

The Weak variant of Hider is a fairly powerful investigative role due to its ability to investigate and self-protect at the same time. It would be best to treat a Weak Hider as an inferior Cop that will have to play differently to deliver innocents and guilties.

A pure Normal Hider is, perhaps paradoxically, a substantially weaker role than the Weak variants. In the best case a Normal Hider is conditionally Bulletproof: by hiding behind players who are unlikely to be killed, such as the scummiest looking player, the Hider will effectively protect itself. This tactic may backfire if a Vigilante is in the game, so when balancing the game, you may need to allow both for the Hider hiding behind the Vigilante's target, and a Hider failing to hide Night 1 because they're waiting to see whether the setup contains a Vigilante or not.

It's important to be sure, when wording a Hider PM, to ensure that they only die if their target is killed, as opposed to their target simply dying (such as a Doomed Townie). Although, some mods may consider this to be a feature, not a bug!

Play Advice

A Normal Hider should opt to protect the player they believe most strongly to be scum, effectively becoming bulletproof for the night, unless they suspect that the setup contains a Vigilante. While a Hider may gambit to draw a night kill, unless the setup seems to reward this type of play, a Hider should simply try to be as town as possible. Managing to draw a kill as a Hider is a two-for-one deal: a kill on a Hider is not a kill that is likely to succeed on other members of the Town, and a kill on a Hider is not a kill on their target, further adding to its power.

Meanwhile, a Weak Hider has two options:

  1. Hide behind the least likely town kill, becoming unkillable for that night and confirming that person as town.
  2. Hide behind the player most likely to be scum: and make no secret that if you end up dead, that is what likely happened during the night phase. This can effectively be a guilty on a player.

As with all Weak roles, it is best to leave a breadcrumb so that if you die, players can in retrospect work out who you must have hidden behind.

Sample Role PMs

The standardized Role PM for "Hider" describes the action as follows:

  • As a targeted action: you will be immune that Night to kills targeted at you directly, but will die if a player kills your target. (edit)

Example (simplest form)

Welcome to game! You are a Town Hider.

You have the following active ability:

  • Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be immune that Night to kills targeted at you directly, but will die if a player kills your target.

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Example (with modifiers)

Welcome to game! You are a Town Weak Loud Hider.

You have the following active ability:

  • Each Night, you may target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will be immune that Night to kills targeted at you directly, but will die if a player kills your target. If you use this action on a player who cannot win with the Town, you will die. Your target will learn that you targeted them (but not what action you targeted them with).

You win if all threats to the town are eliminated and at least one town-aligned player is alive.

Confirm by replying to this PM with a summary of your role.

Retrieved from "http://wiki.mafiascum-staging.net/index.php?title=Hider&oldid=145219"